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CHAMP
I understand that Duplicate submission influence goes to the first submitter, but should we really be penalizing Quirky voters for not realizing they voted for a duplicate (or the wrong duplicate)?
With Stance there were two "Prop your Pad" entries (very close in submission times).
http://www.quirky.com/projects/871-St...
If the system can't differentiate that a "PERIOD" was the only difference between them and allowed it then why should Quirks have to go through extra hoops to identify dupes and determine which one came first?
If they knew which was first wouldn't they have voted for the right one?
My recommendations:
1. Long Term: Come up with a matching system that will pop up similar entries before we do a final submit based on a certain match percent rate. Also, within the current logic that tells us a matching entry exists have it disregard characters (non-letters).
2. Short Term: Have a Quirky Staff Member manually review these phases for similar entries. Those found should be removed and an e-mail should be sent to the submitter and people who voted for it with the original entries link. This way if we still like it we can vote for it again.
3. Short Short Term: Add the ideation number to the main page (under the tagline or name) and change the Alphabetical sort to a dual sort. First by alphabetical then ideation number. Hopefully this will put the first one first.
4. Should the system fail us then award the win influence to the first submitter and vote influence to those who voted for both. If you want it to be fair then assume that we would have voted for the right one. You can't lay the burden on the community. Sometimes we may not even realize there was a duplicate. If we did then mistakes happen when trying to figure out the correct one based on the guidelines.
I’m
frustrated
Duplicate Tagline or Name votes should be awarded to VOTERS
Promoted
Responses
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Update, numero dos. ;)
Since I now launch products for presale, I've added a manual "duplicate" naming & tagline check to my pre-launch list. It should be good as an interim solution. -
I’m
happy
1Update!
We are working on distributing influence to people who voted for "Prop Your Pad" in addition to the people who voted for "Prop Your Pad." (with the period at the end). I don't have an exact date/time of implementation, but it should happen shortly.
I'm working with design to find out how we can add a manual check to their workflow when a winning name or tagline has been selected.
The longer term tech solution will likely have to be addressed as part of a large scale improvement for user functionality. Tech's gut reaction to discounting spaces & punctuation was that it would potentially create larger problems and might not be the best solution. That doesn't end the conversation. It just means that we have to take the time to explore other possibilities.
Ultimately, we share the philosophy that voters who support a winning name or tagline should get influence. We'll figure out the best way of ensuring that. And of course, Get Satisfaction is here for you guys to alert me whenever we miss something. Thank you for flagging this for us!
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IMO, the simplest fix is to not remain in this no-man's-land of "fake" duplicates.
Is "Prop Your Pad." (with a period) actually the duplicate of "Prop Your Pad" (without)?
Nope.
So, pick a favorite version and vote.
If a voter likes it with a period and the QS picks the one without, was the voter right?
Nope.
So, why should they get credit for being wrong?
The system used to automatically reject duplicate submissions - using the "twitter character" model.
(Spaces and periods, etc., make the submission distinct, but capitalization doesn't, etc. - just as some things count and some don't toward twitter's 140 character tweet limit.)
If that system is still working, I say we use it instead of considering submissions to be duplicates when they really aren't.Comment -
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I’m
discouraged
I voted for the duplicate also. Community members should not be penalized because the system is faulty. -
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(Trying to keep the discussion flow even between here and the forum thread)
Just to clarify...I didn't vote for either. I just think this is a wrong way to handle the broken system by placing the burden on the community member.
@Clinton - According to Q they are duplicates so unfortunately your logic is flawed. Also, when has Q ever had a PERIOD at the end of a tagline? There isn't one at the end of the finished product.
http://aquirkyblog.com/?s=name+game
Of course sorting alphabetically and looking is the burden approach and I generally follow that logic too since we can rely on Q. Then what? You have to look at each duplicate to try to figure out which one was submitted first.
The problem is not everyone knows how to figure it out. There is no place this is spelled out. Not in the phase and not even in the Blog Post.
How can we expect newcomers to know this or even know to look for the Blog Post.
If Q considers it a duplicate then until they fix the original problem to keep them from being submitted I believe that they should award the voters of both. Again, they would have voted for it anyway had they known it was a duplicate or the first submitted. -
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I still think they should award the voters because the system is broken. Why penalize community members when they haven't spelled everything out for everyone an an easily found manner. Place the guidelines and the workarounds on how to determine the first submission within these phases.
They've figured out a workaround to award influence for multiple wins in product eval...one would think that could carry over to this circumstance. Multiple winners can have influence in other phases too. Award it as if it were a multiple win and then adjust the percentage for the submitters and leave the voter influence alone. -
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Hey guys, great discussion. I agree work needs to be done to prevent this type of confusion.
We won't be going back into closed projects to change rewards. That's a decision based on manpower. A member of the tech team would have to go into the code and move votes from one submission to another, in order to reward the voters without rewarding the submitter. That time is better spent on projects that provide larger benefits to the community.
We're not ignoring that something needs to be fixed. I've changed this into an idea thread to better track your suggestions and our progress on implementing them.
I absolutely want to reward people who support something that ends up becoming part of the final product. Just taking the time to make sure we make the changes that will be sustainable long term.-
How much manpower is really necessary for this change. Also, influence can be changed up until the point you award presale influence...so there is a possibility to make the change later since it can take months before this happens.
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Logic? Ar you suggesting I'm using logic?
ha
Anyway, you're are correct: Quirky decided to treat non-identical names and taglines as if they are.
My suggested fix is that they change their minds and stop doing that.
It would make name and tagline submitting and voting (and choosing) such a simple WYSIWYG process.
It would relieve the community and staff of the need to check all the names for duplicates, etc., etc.,
And it would start rewarding ideators for what they actually do (instead of what they could have done, but didn't). -
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I’m
happy
1Update!
We are working on distributing influence to people who voted for "Prop Your Pad" in addition to the people who voted for "Prop Your Pad." (with the period at the end). I don't have an exact date/time of implementation, but it should happen shortly.
I'm working with design to find out how we can add a manual check to their workflow when a winning name or tagline has been selected.
The longer term tech solution will likely have to be addressed as part of a large scale improvement for user functionality. Tech's gut reaction to discounting spaces & punctuation was that it would potentially create larger problems and might not be the best solution. That doesn't end the conversation. It just means that we have to take the time to explore other possibilities.
Ultimately, we share the philosophy that voters who support a winning name or tagline should get influence. We'll figure out the best way of ensuring that. And of course, Get Satisfaction is here for you guys to alert me whenever we miss something. Thank you for flagging this for us!-
Thank you so much for getting this problem corrected for this last round. I know this is going to give confidence to the community that Q will do what is right for their members.
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I’m
thrilled
1I'm thrilled!
Maybe there should be a "flag" button on entries. If there is a duplicate entry the community can flag it and a Q member can quickly check.
Thanks Q!-
Great suggestion, Patti, I've added that as a sub-point to my list for discussion.
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Awesome point Patti. You know how we love calling things out. ;-)
This would lighten the burden from being solely on Q in the interim before a full solution is launched. -
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Update, numero dos. ;)
Since I now launch products for presale, I've added a manual "duplicate" naming & tagline check to my pre-launch list. It should be good as an interim solution. -
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Thanks for the interim manual intervention Shirley.
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Shirley. The same thing happened with the Name for Bandits. This is still open and influence is able to be adjusted. Can you please add this one to the manual correction too? There were quite a few that voted for both.
Here is the forum topic I started about it for an easy reference point for you.
http://www.quirky.com/forums/topic/3265-
Thanks for the heads up. I've made the request for tech to share voting influence for the winning name among voters of both submissions.
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Thanks for taking this on Shirley. You are a gem. ;-)
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Small update:
I checked the name submissions before Links, the hook product, launched. "Link" had been submitted earlier than "Links". There was no guidance in our naming blog post regarding the plural version of a name, so we selected both submissions as winners. This is a one-time deal. I am editing the name blog post to include more guidance. Honestly, we don't want a free-for-all where people go through names they like and just add an "s" at the end to see if they can win that way. Plurals will be viewed as duplicates in the future, and only the earliest submission will be marked as winner.
As for the tagline, "Get Hooked" was chosen. There was another submission for "Get Hooked!" The exclamation mark changed the nature of that tagline significantly. Because support was shown for something that had a different feel to it, we will not be rewarding those voters.- view 2 more comments
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Not debating, just sharing my opinion. ;-)
I do think that a brief example like
NameName. (non-disruptive punctuation) - i.e. periods (.), commas (,), etc.
would be beneficial for those unfamiliar with the deep dive of rules in the English language. The majority of us in the U.S. probably still need to look these up (myself included). I can't imagine how confusing it is to our Non-U.S. community members.
Obvious ones don't need examples. I am mainly referring to these:
NameName. (non-disruptive punctuation)
The NameName (articles before/in the name)
Your Name Name (possessive pronouns, etc.)
and maybe this one
Unname Naming (prefixes and suffixes) -
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I do want to say thank you though for taking this on and doing what is right for the community members by the way. ;-)
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Shirley,
To prevent anyone being confused in the future, is there anyway to add the details of that blog post to the actual name and tagline phase pages so people do not have to go searching the blog for it? Maybe even add it above the area one would submit their name/tagline idea.-
Get outta my brain, Cody! I just requested this be added. Not sure when it will be implemented.
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My other concern with the current system (besides it being hard to maintain) is that it can shut down creativity and diversity of thought.
Take, for example, the submission: NameName
If all submitters comply with the rules, we will never see other creative ideas like:
NameNames
The NameName
A NameName
Name...Name
Name-Name
etc.
Now, I agree that some of the differences are small. But they are differences. And, unfortunately, the rules are keeping Quirky from seeing and considering them.
Again, my point is that, if the QS should happen to like "Name." better than "Name", then choose "Name." - or vice versa...but I think Quirky has taken the worse road by setting up the system so it will only ever see one of them. -
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Update: we just launched Sliders for presale. There were naming submissions for "Slider" and "Sliders" and the influence was awarded to "Slider" because it was submitted first. We are in the progress of moving all voters over to the winning name submission so that they are all rewarded influence. Additionally, the submitter of "Sliders" has been contacted with a full explanation of our decision.
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Thanks for keeping up with this.
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Way to go Q!
Good to see Quirky reward someone for what they could have done, but decided not to...
...while not rewarding someone though they DID do it.
You guys are trying so hard, you're all mixed up backward - ha
Could the winner have submitted Sliders instead of Slider? - yep
But they didn't.
So, why are the rules set up to reward them over the person who did?- view 12 more comments
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ha - but, this is where you're at!
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I'll just meet you in Clinton's Corner for drinks later. ;-)
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I’m
Seriously disappointed
1Hi- so confused.. I submitted the name sliders and the winning product name is sliders - not slider. IMO this was always an item that would be sold in a pack, so my 3 submissions were plural e.g., with an "s". I was allowed to submit (vs being told there was a slider) and truthfully this is right because sliders is not the same. Right now I have no credit. What's the consensus? I did submit the winning name. -
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Monty, you submitted the name that will be on the box, but you did not win.
Whatever guidelines Quirky may wish to use, IMO this kind of crazy situation cannot be the result. -
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Hey guys, this thread was an idea to reward voters according to guidelines that we have set. If you'd like to create a new thread suggesting changes to the judging criteria, please do so. No hijacking, please!
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BURN! I told you to get out of my Idea thread and get your own Clinton. ;-)
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I did, I did...like, an hour ago.
(I didn't come back her to comment, I was just responding to Monty.) -
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if there was a submittal period, followed by a voting period,
it would:
1.) give Quirky a moment to 'try' and delete duplicate entries. (and at least get the obvious duplicates out.)
2.) make it fair for all entries. know one would come late to the party and not have a chance for everyone to see their idea before voting. (late entries have a very unfair chance at getting votes, IMO)
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all rounds should follow this system (IMO), just like the opening round goes thru. it works and is fair to all.-
Hey J, this is an idea that's currently under consideration. Here's the GS thread.
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Product 140, the customizable jewelry organizer, just launched with the name Trove. Request in progress to award people who voted for a "duplicate" name submission Trove'.
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WHY?
If some voters didn't recognize TROVE as the best name, why are you pretending that they did?
And, since some voters helped Quirky by recognizing TROVE as the best name, why are you penalizing them by chopping their % in half?
The value of brand names is in the meaning of the name - so reward based on meaning.
TROVE and TROVE' are distinct words with distinct meanings. -
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Don't agree that there is a distinct meaning of Trove/Trove'. Only a distinct spelling. If there was a distinct meaning it would have its own place in the dictionary.
Also voters may have not seen Maria's original Trove. And since it has the same exact word definition, voters should not be penalized.
In any case great name selection Q. Maria got it perfect with that one. -
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ha - Jason, are you the "meaning police"? jk
I think meaning is best left up to each submitter, voter, and QS chooser...whatever is there for them is there.
Quirky chose TROVE over TROVE' for some reason (and it wasn't submission timing, they've never been shy about that). And whether the reason was an actual dictionary meaning, symbolic "looks French" meaning, or they didn't like what an apostrophe does to SEO - there was a real reason and meaning for the choice of one over the other.
Those who had the insight to suggest and vote for the name Quirky chose should get %.
Those who did not suggest or vote for the name should not...whether because of lack of insight, mistake, or "missed it".
See, the thing is that Quirky does not choose the idea for a name, then make a name to use...
...they use the exact name that's submitted.
So, they should reward that exact submitter and voter.
That's different from the other rounds, where Quirky chooses an idea for a product, then makes a product to sell...
...and it is the idea that counts.
So, they reward the idea submitter and voter.
Instead of treating all the rounds as if it's the idea that will be used, split them up according to what actually happens.
Keep treating the rounds where it's the idea that will be used as rounds where the idea submission wins.
But treat the rounds where the exact submission is going to be used as rounds where the exact submission wins.
And, reward based on insight, not effort.
IMO, to submit TROVE' after seeing TROVE took insight - it just wasn't shared by the QS. -
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Honestly, doing this takes a LOT of work, and I would not have agreed if I didn't think it was the right thing to do. If I were going through hundreds of names to cast 3 votes on my favorites, it sucks to choose between Trove and Trove'. It feels like the right thing, and it sounds like other people agree that it's the right thing. 'Nuff said.
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'nuff said?
(ha - I remember "somebody's" twitter bio!)
Of course people like this! It multiplies their votes...they get two , three, or four times the chance of winning %.
But did they get the % because they voted for the winner? - nope.
Do they care? - "'nah, just give us the %."
(What I'm trying to sarcastically say is that self-interest probably makes them not the best source for deciding what's best for Quirky.)
I have no sympathy for them.
If they didn't have the insight to pick the name Quirky picked (not the idea, the exact name), then they were wrong.
(And, yes, it sucks...so what?)
If you had been looking through the submissions, saw TROVE and TROVE' and had to pick one - when you did, you would have done so for a reason...because of some insight, some meaning, something.
And if your insight matched Quirky's choice, your vote helped Quirky and you get %.
If it didn't, you didn't, no %.
% is not a "participation prize", to be spread around so people feel good.
It's a reward for insight.
TROVE is distinct from TROVE'...let those with the insight to see a distinction and help Quirky by voting for it get the reward.
"Close is for horseshoes and hand grenades"....it shouldn't be for Quirky voting %....ESPECIALLY the name round where the winner is not a concept, but an exact, specific name. -
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I’m
eh
Hi - I voted for the duplicate tagline "It's in the Bag" - Is this being addressed as well? -
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Once again, Quirky picks a phrase for a tagline... then tells the person who could have submitted it BUT DID NOT, that they did...
and tells the person WHO ACTUALLY DID submit it that they did not.
Are
It's in the bag!
It's in the bag.
It's in the bag
similar?
You bet.
Are they the same?
Shirley, you're a journalist. Are they the same?
Of course not.
So why treat them like they are?
Please remove the ambiguity from the tagline and name rounds.
Simply let us know that what we submit is what we submitted, and what we vote for is what we voted for.
If we think an exclamation point is best, we should submit and vote for it.
If we think a period is called for, we should submit and vote for it.
If we think plain is better, we should submit and vote for it.
Was the difference between the three taglines significant?
Absolutely!
Quirky chose to use one over the others because of the differences!
Would Quirky be awarding influence to a submitter and voters because of the "effort" required to remove an exclamation point or a period?
Nope.
Quirky would be awarding influence to a submitter and voters because they recognized the same significance that Quirky recognized.
Please. Remove the ambiguity and make the system make sense. -
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Funny actually, considering the Get Hooked! with the ! issue, the wrong submission won with "It's in the Bag!" and influence should be reversed?
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2Why the Quirky platform allows to enter two or more IDENTICAL names? (see all the latest naming contests)
This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Identical names. -
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I’m
a bit pissed at the Q system, it doesn't seem to understand how the community members work.
Alright... so I got an email telling me I received a big goose egg on AutoStir's tagline round. (0.00%)
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according to this:
http://www.quirky.com/products/79
the name winner is:
--- AutoStir
and the tagline is:
--- No More Cold Spot
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so... here is my tagline submission:
http://www.quirky.com/ideations/136470
--- No More Cold Spot!
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and the winner:
http://www.quirky.com/users/14481
--- No More Cold Spots
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Quirky's rules on this are here: http://aquirkyblog.com/2010/06/the-name-game/
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i fully accept that Christine Torpey's submission was in first; per the rules of the above link. (Congratulations Christine!)
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my problem is that if they are 'identical' (per the "Rules-Rules"), why am i not given influence for my submision? ...and.... what of all the people that voted for MY submission?
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per this GS thread, Shirley at the top said "Ultimately, we share the philosophy that voters who support a winning name or tagline should get influence."
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i've been writing Comunity Ambasador Andy on this topic.... and the short of his responce to me is that, i should have done my due dilligence and checked for identical posts. My not getting any influence is my fault.
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i usually do check for duplicates. but this is nuts. when the submissions are flying in and you think you have a good idea, the quirky website is feeding you 10 previous submissions at a time, there are over 500 submissions to pick thru, and the sort functions on the site suck..... all of this is my fault. (this is getting onto another rant on a different topic...)
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what are others oppinions on this?
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i don't understand why ALL WINING VOTES AND IDEAS aren't lumped together and given influence, while the first to post the 'identical' idea takes the win. -
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A time stamp would help, also.
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CHAMP
